SoundMan Car Audio - shallow subs

» Equipment discussion

Back To Topics

shallow subs

Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 18, 2012 7:36:37 AM PST

can you really get good booming bass but yet still good sound quality from a shallow mount sub? its just had to believe its possible with only 9-13 mm of x max. anybody with shallow subs or knowledge of this please get back to me
Nicholas Frazier
- 219 posts
January 18, 2012 7:47:45 AM PST

Yes. It depends on the woofer, but a lot of the mid to high end shallow subs have a decent amount of bass response without sacrificing much quality. The TW5, Type-R are pretty good. The P3S isn't bad and neither is the Kenwood eXelon shallow or Pioneer shallows.

The big thing is putting in the right box.

This post was edited by Nicholas Frazier at January 18, 2012 7:48:40 AM PST
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 18, 2012 7:51:23 AM PST

i noticed they are generally more expensive then the typical sub, idk if its worth it if its half the performance then that of a regular subwoofer.
Nicholas Frazier
- 219 posts
January 18, 2012 7:57:18 AM PST

Well typically I use shallow subwoofers for cars that don't have a lot of space/no space and they want some added LFE, or for customers who want them hidden behind panels w/o space or want it to take up little to no space.

If you look in my albums you'll see the Mini Cooper S I did w/ a shallow Pioneer. Good bass response for a sealed box, but the customer didn't want a box back there, and wanted nothing above the trunk/bumper lip.

If you have some space, and don't mind using it, get a normal woofer.

This post was edited by Nicholas Frazier at January 18, 2012 7:57:48 AM PST
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 18, 2012 8:04:27 AM PST

im going to make a milhouse box, it can be done with a normal woofer or the box can be shallower/less wait with a shallow sub. i just was to feel the bass dammit, what i have no is not good enough.
Nicholas Frazier
- 219 posts
January 18, 2012 8:06:10 AM PST

What do you have now?

There's a decent amount of room if you were doing that box that folds into the rear space.
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 18, 2012 8:07:52 AM PST

yea thats the box style im doing. and i have a single 12 pioneer with a partically fried rockford t3002.
Nicholas Frazier
- 219 posts
January 18, 2012 8:10:02 AM PST

I haven't done one of those in a while but IIRC the last one I did was ~ a 2.5 cu. ft. box there. You're options are pretty large w/ that amount of space. Depends on how much bass u want and how much money you wanna spend.
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 18, 2012 8:12:42 AM PST

well im flip flopping between spending the money and getting a kick ass sound quality system with audison and hertz products, or go mid level with either jl or alpine. but i know id eventually get bored of that and want to upgrade again. im looking at spending around 3.5k for the audison/hertz system and about 2k for the jl/alpine system
Nicholas Frazier
- 219 posts
January 18, 2012 8:28:41 AM PST

Well if you wanna do some modifications in the rear side panels you can do some 6w3's for you're "rear" a nice set of c5 comps up front. Run a HD 900/5 and leave the lfe channel. see how the bass response is with the 2 6w3's. if you want more bass, you have an option to add a 500w sub. a little crazy thinking but yea.
Dimitri Triantafillidis
- 83 posts
January 18, 2012 9:36:09 AM PST

Go with Hertz Mille Audison LRx/Voce 5.1k,Bitone and for sub ML3000 or JL 13w7.You'll never get bored with that.If you do then the only way is up and you will have a very good basis for building something more SQL or whatever

This post was edited by Dimitri Triantafillidis at January 18, 2012 9:37:41 AM PST
Brad Stolberg
- 487 posts
January 18, 2012 9:37:31 AM PST

as far as the 6w3 thers no reason it even exists...1 8 type r is better than 4 6w3's.

As far as reccomendations go for your system, based on that budget (i assume its soley for equipment) you can have an awesome setup for $3500

I'd go Audison 5.1k for the amp ($1500), a set of Voce components up front ran active($500ish), a Bit Ten D ($600), deck of your choice (maybe think about digital optical out with the w910), and you'd still have budget for a 10w7...those are all retail prices too

Or maybe get a 4.1k and 1.1k and ditch the Bit Ten D and run passive with rears.

As far as the shallow subs go, JL has the TW5v2 and 10/12TW3v1 on the way...the TW5v1 is an awesome sub has allot of SQ characteristics and hits as hard as a 12w3. I do like the type R shallows but not as much as the JL's.
Dimitri Triantafillidis
- 83 posts
January 18, 2012 9:39:49 AM PST

Brad always on my mind lol
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 19, 2012 6:56:01 AM PST

i wanna run active up front and let the rears run off the head unit, that will still sound good right?
theres no way a w7 can fit comfortably in the hatch, not unless i take the rear seats out and build a custom enclouse and then an amp rack in the rear.....that would be sick. i guess its just hard to believe a shallow sub can give me the kind of bass i want. ive seriously considered taking the rear seats out and putting a huge enclosure there, i mean i dont have kids or a family or anything. so why not lol
Brad Stolberg
- 487 posts
January 19, 2012 3:00:04 PM PST

that will only work if you use the volume control on ur head unit as ur master control...If you get a processor with a controller your going to want to use the volume on the controller so your EQ remains constant

and shallow subs sound just as good as normal ones otherwise they wouldnt exist

Ive put a pair of 10w7s in the back of a 4th gen f-body and retained the rear seats no prob, trunk space was slightly affected tho haha
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 19, 2012 3:13:22 PM PST

so i can get a 4 channel amp, run the tweeters off 2 channels and the mids off of the other two and that'll be fine? im dont really know to much about actve and passive set ups. i know the traditional set up is passive. active is mainly for sq, correct?

i like the new w6 that were showcased at ces, the surround is just like the w7. ill prolli wait for that. but trunk space really isnt a concern. its just a matter of gettin the correct stuff so the bass stays inside the car.
Brad Stolberg
- 487 posts
January 19, 2012 3:48:30 PM PST

Yea the new w6v3 looks sweet

Going active with a processor solves every problem that can occur, independent time alignment, eq, and gain for every driver is made possible, it will not only make your system sound better (sq) but it will also make it louder because you have eliminated the passive x-over network that's robbing power and limiting the potential of the drivers...it can get complicated but it's they way to go if your serious about sound, no doubt a passive setup can still sound great but it's less flexible because your limited to what the manufacturer decided would be best to put in the x-over, sometimes they give you a few options like +3db on the tweet but that's it
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 21, 2012 12:25:20 PM PST

are there any quality processors perfect for what i wanna do. i only need 4 or 6 channels, right? i say 6 just in case i change my mind and run the rears through the processor.

what if i got the xd/600? i can run 4 channels for the front stage, and the last 2 on the rears? get whatever processor you recomend and set the front set up active, rears passive, get a mrx m1000 for subs.

what do you think is the best type of sound deadner? dynomat is some exspensive shit.

thanks for all the help man.
Dimitri Triantafillidis
- 83 posts
January 21, 2012 12:39:31 PM PST

Bitone(8 channels),Bit Ten D(6 channels),MS8(8 channels),Alpine PXA-H800(8 channels) are some of the best processors.If you want to get one you'd better buy one with as much channels as you can afford.Better have more than less.If you want to change to/build something more demanding in the near future you'll be able to make your plans having more solutions/options

This post was edited by Dimitri Triantafillidis at January 21, 2012 12:40:54 PM PST
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 21, 2012 12:53:59 PM PST

any idea off the top of your head for prices on those?
Dimitri Triantafillidis
- 83 posts
January 21, 2012 1:01:38 PM PST

I live in Greece.You'd better ask someone near your area.I wish I knew the currency rate.IMO the prices are between 600-1000usd.They 're a bit pricey but sure worth every cent

This post was edited by Dimitri Triantafillidis at January 21, 2012 1:02:05 PM PST
Brad Stolberg
- 487 posts
January 21, 2012 1:35:54 PM PST

I wouldn't reccomend the JL XD for running active, the JL D class amps tend to break up at high frequencys, The PDX would be a better option for active, but still not even close to the best. with your budget I highly reccomend the LRx or Voce 5.1k its a great bang for buck when you think about it, and is perfect for an active 2 way front stage + sub.

for sound deadener I use Dynamat xtreme but allot of them are similar

And for a processor the bit ten has the least abount of channels (5) and the most you can get is 8 which is most common to support an active 3 way front stage. IMO the Bit One is the best out of the bunch but its $1200 retail price is hard to swallow. plus you have to pay someone who knows what there doing to tune it correctly to take advantage of its capabilities.

I honestly woulnt even do rears, i mean I have them in my Impala but thats the only one and I'll admit it was a waste of money.

Look into the Pioneer Deh-80PRS, it was released at CES and will be available in march, it has 6 channels and a full DSP (processor) with auto tune built in plus its a high quality deck all for $420 retail...its a bang for buck piece too considering the DEX-P99RS which adds 2 channels and a crappier interface, among other negligible things, and its also $1200

I think that DEH-80PRS is a great place to start and is the best deck ive seen to use for a Bit One's source in a while
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 21, 2012 4:33:01 PM PST

i just looked that pioneer deck up, for the price thats sick!! i was expecting to see a dbl din atleast lol say i got that when it comes out, how would i wire that up for the fronts to be active? itll be either high energys or morel elates (which do you recommend?) 3 ways on both. ill custom make the pods in the a pillars. ive never messed with this an i use to be just into bass but not much for sq, its annoying, i turn the volume up and the bass way over powers the mids and highs.

now i have some older style alpine coax in the rear, your sayin completly disconnect them? or are you sayin dont buy new rears?
i just wanna dynomat the hatch lid so it doesnt viabrat and the doors.
400-head unit
600-900 front stage
1500k-lrx5.1k
??-new jl 10w6 when theh come out, prolli 500 a piece.....for that i mine as well just get one 12w7....you think the 1000 wats thag lrx puts out will be too much for that? i saw on q and a doug hooked it up to alpine mrx m200 an it didnt blow, im thinkin it should be fine.
Brad Stolberg
- 487 posts
January 21, 2012 6:33:17 PM PST

if you want to do fully active 3 ways then you need either the P99rs or a Bitone or equivlent 8ch DSP...you need 6 total channels for a 3 way active front stage, plus at least 1 for the sub, but you could do that setup and only the Mid and Tweet would be ran passive

and either of those subs can take that amp, that actually the rated RMS for the 12w7...I run a pair of 10w7's with Mille 3 ways active and high energy rear off a pair of LRx 5.1K's soon to be swapped for Voce 5.1s with the Bit input!!

yea the mrp-m2000 hypothetically puts out 1750w RMS @3ohms so that about as much as I'd put on a 12w7, but thats perfect for a 13w7 :)
Brandon Morris
- 28 posts
January 21, 2012 6:52:00 PM PST

i looked up the deh-80prs on pioneers website. it said it has a 3 way active set up built in or whatever lol i guess you'll have to read it and tell me if i read it wrong.

whats the difference between the voce and lrx?